Umuyobozi w’Ishyaka Mouvement de Libération du Congo (MLC) Jean Pierre Bemba ubu afite imigambi mishya yo kugaruka muri Politiki y’igihugu cye. Muri Guverinoma iherutse gushyirwaho na Bwana Jean– Michel Sama Lukonde, ishyaka rya Bemba rifitemo Minisiteri eshatu.
Bemba yaherukaga kuvugwa muri Politiki y’igihugu cye mu mwaka wa 2006 ubwo yari Visi Perezida, muri 2008 aza gufungwa ndetse akatirwa imyaka 18 kubera ibyaha by’intambara yaregwaga ariko aza gufungurwa nyuma y’imyaka 10.
Mu matora y’Umukuru w’igihugu aheruka yashatse kwiyamamaza ariko Urukiko rushinzwe kurinda Itegeko nshinga rurabyanga.
Muri iki gihe aba i Kinshasa mu gace kitwa Pumbu aho afite urugo runini.
Iwe ahamaze iminsi ategura uko yagaruka muri Politiki y’igihugu cye. Mu minsi ishize yirinze kugira uruhande ashyigikira hagati ya Kabila na Tshisekedi ubwo bari bahanganye umwe ashaka kwigizayo undi.
Aherutse guha ikiganiro Jeune Afrique:
J.A : Mu gihe cyose Tshisekedi amaze ategeka mwirinze kugaragara muri Politiki. Bisa n’aho mwiheje!
Jean-Pierre Bemba : Oya siniheje. Maze iminsi nkoresha igihe cyanjye kinini ntunganya ibyo mu ishyaka ryanjye. Nazengurutse igihugu nganira n’abarwanashyaka kandi mbona bigenda neza. Nirinze ko abantu bakomeza kuntekereza ho binshi mbanza gutuza.
Ku byerekeye ishyaka ryanjye ariko, ndagira ngo nkubwire ko ryakomeje gukora ndetse ryagize ijambo ku byaberaga muri iki gihugu birebana n’imibereho y’abaturage n’umutekano.
J.A: Muri Guverinoma ya Jean- Michel Sama Lukonde Kyenge mufitemo abaminisitiri batatu. Ese bivuze ko mwateye umugongo abatavuga rumwe na Leta?
Jean Pierre Bemba:Twabaye ku ruhande rw’abatavuga rumwe na Leta guhera muri 2006 kandi icyo gihe byari bikwiye kuko twaharaniraga ko amahame ya Demukarasi atsimbatazwa mu gihugu, ibintu bigakorwa hakurikijwe amategeko, igihugu kigacungwa neza. Ubu byarahindutse, ntibikiri ngombwa kutavuga rumwe nayo.
J.A: Ese musanga abaminisitiri batatu bahagije ngo mwumve ko muhagarariwe neza muri Guverinoma nshya?
Jea Pierre Bemba: Oya rwose! Abahisemo kuduha imyaka itatu ntibashishoje ngo barebe uburemere bw’ishyaka nka MLC. Uko bimeze kose ariko nemera ko guharanira ko ibibazo igihugu cyacu gifite byakemuka, ari byo bifite agaciro kurusha kumaranira imyanya.
Ikindi ni uko abaminisitiri bose baba bakorera hamwe kugira ngo igihugu kigere ku ntego zacyo kandi ibyo nibyo natwe dushaka.
J.A: Iyo urebye usanga hari ubwumvikane buke bwatangiye kuboneka mu bagize ihuriro riri ku butegetsi bita Union Sacrée. Ntubona ko iki ari ikimenyetso cy’uko ritazaramba?
Jean Pierre Bemba: Njye si uko nabivuga. Byose bizaterwa n’ubushobozi bwo kuyobora kwa Minisitiri w’Intebe. Niwe ugomba gukora uko ashoboye agahuza abari muri Guverinoma ye kugira ngo bagere ku ntego yihaye. Perezida wa Repubulika nawe agomba kuzaba hafi kugira ngo acubye amashagaga ya bamwe ku nyungu za Repubulika n’abayituye.
J.A: Mu Ugushyingo, 2020, mwagize uruhare mu biganiro bya Politiki byateguwe na Felix Tshisekedi. Ese aho ntibwaba bwari uburyo bwo kwihimura kuri Kabila?
Jean Pierre Bemba: Nta nda y’umujinya mfitiye Kabila! Perezida Tshisekedi yarantumiye ndaza. Mu gihe cy’amasaha abiri n’igice twamaze tuganira, yanyeretse ibibazo biri mu ihuriro bari bafatanyije gutegeka(rya Kabila).
Nasanze mu by’ukuri ari ibibazo bikomeye bituma kuyoborana na Kabila bimugoye. Ibyo yambwiye byanyeretse ko Kongo yatubyaye iri kugurumana.
Iwacu muri Afurika iyo hari umuturanyi musanzwe mufite icyo mupfa inzu ye igashya, ibyo mwapfaga bijya ku ruhande ukamutabara.
Iki gihugu cyahuye n’ibyagitwitse byinshi, haba mu gihe cya Mobutu na Joseph Kasavubu, iyicwa rya Laurent Desiré Kabila n’ibindi.
Ubu rero si byiza ko amateka yongera kwiyandika. Ni ngombwa ko duhuza imbaraga tugasana iki gihugu cyatubyaye.
J.A: Tuvuge se ko mwababariye Felix Tshisekedi ku kuba yarirengagije amasezerano y’i Genève yemereraga Martin Fayulu kwiyamamariza kuyobora DRC?
Jean Pierre Bemba: Ubwo mperuka guhura na Perezida ntabwo twari tugamije kuganira ku byabaye mu mateka, ahubwo twaganiriye ku buzima bw’igihugu muri iki gihe no mu gihe kizaza.
Gusa nakubwira ko ibyabereye i Genève nta kintu kidasanzwe byasize mu mutima wanjye. Twarahahuriye turaganira turishima ni uko turataha. Nta kindi.
J.A: Aho ntimwaba mushinja Umuryango mpuzamahanga kuba warashyigikiye amatora aheruka kandi ataravuzweho rumwe?
Jean Pierre Bemba: Reka reka! Ubwo se naba nywuziza iki? Erega ibintu byarahindutse! Abatuye iki gihugu bagomba kumva ko igihe kigeze ngo bacyubake bave mu matiku y’ejo hashize. Ibidutegereje nibyo bikomeye kurusha ibindi twapfa ibyo ari byo byose.
J.A: N’ubwo muvuga ko mwihuje na Tshisekedi, ariko ku rundi ruhande ntimwigeze mwitandukanya na Lamuka. Gusa igitangaje ni uko Fayulu avuga ko mutakiri kumwe. Musanga kuba ahantu habiri bizabakundira?
Jean Pierre Bemba: Lamuka twayihanze turi benshi kandi duhuje umugambi. Buri wese muri twe uko twari bane yazanye ishyaka rye turayahuza ariko nta n’umwe muri twe wigeze asenya ishyaka rye.
Yari njye, Moïse Katumbi, Martin Fayulu, na Adolphe Muzito. Njye n’ishyaka ryanjye twahisemo kwifatanya na Tshisekedi ku bwacu aho kuba k’ubwa Lamuka.
Ikindi ni uko amategeko agenga amashyaka yacu avuga ko igihe cyose rimwe ryabishakira ryakwitandukanya na Lamuka. Ikindi nagira ngo abantu bamenye ni uko mu by’ukuri umuyobozi nyawe wa Lamuka ari Moïse Katumbi.
J.A: Ese ni iki kitagenda neza muri Lamuka?
Jean Pierre Bemba: Lamuka ntabwo yapfuye. Iracyariho gusa hari abantu bashegeshwe n’ibyabaye nyuma y’amatora aheruka, bananirwa kureba imbere ngo bite ku bibazo biriho muri iki gihe. Njye na Katumbi ariko ntituri muri abo.
Tshisekedi yarabibonye ahitamo ko dukorana, turabyemera. Nemera ko twahisemo neza.
JA. Muziranye na Martin Fayulu kuva mu myaka ya 1980. Ese kuki mutagerageje kumwumvisha ko amahitamo yanyu ngo abe yabakurikiza?
Jean Pierre Bemba: Nari muzi bisanzwe nk’inshuti ariko bitari mu rwego rwa politiki. Mu by’ukuri uriya mugabo ntarumva ko igihugu gikeneye ko abantu bahindura imyumvire. Ubwo twajyaga guhura na Tshisekedi mu Ugushyingo 2020 we naMuzito twabasabye ko baza tukajyana ariko badusubiza ko batumva impamvu zabyo, turabihorera.
J.A: Hari bagenzi banyu batavuga rumwe na Leta bakunze kugisha inama Denis Sassou Nguesso. Ese yaba namwe yarabagiriye inama muri ibi byemezo mwafashe?
Jean Pierre Bemba: Sinigeze mpura nawe mu mezi ashize kuko nari mpugiye mu kuganira n’abarwanashyaka banjye hirya no hino mu gihugu. Ubwo Tshisekedi yampamagazaga nari ndi i Gemena kandi nahise mwitaba i Kinshasa. Nta masezerano nari naragiranye na Perezida Sassou Nguesso mbere y’aho.
Kandi n’ubu simvugana nawe.
J.A: Kuba mu bagize ihuriro riri ku butegetsi muri iki gihe harimo benshi bahoranye na Kabila hari ikibazo bibateye?
Jean Pierre Bemba: Erega kuba iri huriro ryaragiyeho nta kindi ryari rigamije uretse kurenga ibyadutanyaga ahubwo tukubakira hamwe igihugu! Ntabwo intego ari ukwigizayo Joseph Kabila. Abo ku ruhande rwe bari kumwe natwe ntacyo bidutwaye, yewe ndetse n’abandi babishaka bazaze.
J.A: Ese mwavuga mute ko mu gihugu hari uguharanira ubumwe mu baturage kandi kugeza ubu ikivugwaho cyane ari uburyo imyanya ya politiki igabanyije amashyaka?
Jean Pierre Bemba: Nonese uretse kwigiza nkana, hari igihugu wabonye kibaho kidafite amashyaka ya politiki akorana agamije gukemura ibibazo by’abaturage?Wibuke kandi ko iki gihugu kirimo amashyaka ya politiki 450. Ibi byerekana ko kubanza gukemura ibibazo by’imyanya ya politiki ari ingenzi ariko ko bitibagiza intego ihatse izindi yo guteza imbere imibereho y’abaturage.
J.A: Abantu benshi bazi ko Joseph Kabila ari umunyamayeri ya politiki ukomeye. Namwe ni uko mubibona?
Jean Pierre Bemba: Uriya mugabo twakoranye imyaka itatu kandi neza. Nakoranye nawe mu gusubiza ibintu ku murongo haba mu bukungu, igisirikare no mu bindi. Ibi byashobotse kuko twari dufite icyerekezo kimwe.
Kumbaza uko mubona, byo sindi bugire icyo mbivugaho. Iby’uko hari icyo acecekanye muri iki gihe, nabyo ntacyo ndi bubivugeho.
Tugikorana namubwiraga uko mbona ibintu ntaca ku ruhande. Kumbaza niba yarahindutse nabyo ntacyo nabivugaho kuko simuheruka!
J.A: Ubwo se ntimumushinja uruhare mu ifungwa ryanyu muri 2008?
Jean Pierre Bemba: Nzi neza uko byagenze muri kiriya gihe. Sindi bubigarukeho kuko byabaye amateka.
J.A: Iyo murebye musanga ari iki Kabila yakoze cyiza yakwibukirwaho?
Jean Pierre Bemba: Twafatanyije mu guhuza abaturage, ariko icy’ingenzi ni uguhererekanya ubutegetsi na Felix Tshisekedi muri Mutarama 2019. Iki kizasigara mu mateka y’iki gihugu.
Ku rundi ruhande ariko, haracyari byinshi byo gusana muri iki gihugu.
J.A. Mwumva nta ngingimira ku mutima y’uko mutemerewe guhangana nawe mu matora aheruka?
Jean Pierre Bemba: Wahora n’iki! Buri gihe birababaza kwimwa uburenganzira bwo kwiyamamaza.
J.A: Bavuga ko mwatorejwe Politiki ku birenge bya Maréchal Mobutu. Mwe mwumva mudasangiye ibitekerezo bya politiki n’uriya musirikare wategetse Zaïre?
Jean Pierre Bemba: Oya, ibihe byarahindutse. Nari muzi rwose ariko nanone sinigeze mpuza nawe ibitekerezo by’uko iki gihugu cyayoborwa.
J.A: Umurambo wa Mobutu washyinguwe muri Maroc. Ese ntimujya mwifuza ko wazashyinguwa muri DRC?
Jean Pierre Bemba: Birumvikana ko ntawakwishimira ko umurambo w’umuntu wigeze kuyobora igihugu ushyingurwa ishyanga! Umuryango we ugomba kubiganiraho na Leta hakarebwa icyakorwa.
J.A: Bivugwa ko muri umunyapolitiki utavugirwamo, utava ku izima. Ese gereza yaba yaratumye mucisha make?
Jean Pierre Bemba: Abanyita batyo barakabya. Byumvikanisha ko batanzi neza. Icyo navuga ni uko iyo umuntu ahuye n’ibibazo mu buzima abisohokamo hari icyo bimwigishije.
J.A: Haba hari imico mwigiye muri gereza ya La Haye?
Jean Pierre Bemba: Nkora kandi nzakomeza gukora siporo. Ncuranga piano nkanashushanyisha irangi( peinture).
J.A: Laurent Gbagbo aherutse kugirwa umwe. Ese muracyavugana?
Jean Pierre Bemba: Cyane rwose. Ariko tuvugana mu buryo busanzwe, kandi sindi bubivugeho binshi.
J.A: Muri iki gihe musanga hari impinduka zikenewe mu bagize Komisiyo y’amatora cyangwa mu mikorere yayo?
Jean Pierre Bemba: Icyo ni ngombwa kandi amahire ni uko hari ibyatangiye gukorwa kugira ngo iriya Komisiyo ibe koko yigenga. Ubwo turi mu bayoboye iki gihugu, tuzareba uko ibyayo bizagenda.
J.A:Kuba muri iki gihe muri ku ruhande rwa Tshisekedi bivuze ko niyongera kwiyamamaaza muzamushyigikira?
Jean Pierre Bemba: Kuvuga kuri iyo ngingo byaba ari ugutandukira kuko haracyari kare. Si byiza kubyina mbere y’uko umuziki utangira. Reka dutegereze uko Komisiyo y’amatora izabyitwaramo.
Muri iki gihe dukeneye kureba uko umutakano urambye wagaruka mu Burasirazuba bw’igihugu cyacu, cyane cyane i Beni. Iby’amatora yo muri 2023 bizaba bivugwaho igihe kigeze.
J.A: Musanga ari ngombwa ko DRC iganira n’abaturanyi ibyerekeye umutekano wayo?
Jean Pierre Bemba: Cyane. Abaturanyi bagomba guturana badatongana.
JA. Umutwe wa gisirikare mwashinze mu myaka ya 1990 n’ubu uracyafashwa na Uganda. Ese muracyaganira na Perezida Museveni?
Jean Pierre Bemba: Nziranye n’abayobora ibihugu hafi ya byose byo muri aka karere! Ndakumenyesha ko ibiganiro ngirana nabo ari ibanga.
J.A: Kuri mwe kugira ngo amahoro agaruke mu Burasirazuba bwa DRC, byasaba iki?
Jean Pierre Bemba: Icya mbere bisaba ni uko igisirikare na polisi bigomba kuvugururwa. Imitwe y’ingabo igomba guhabwa ubuyobozi bushya kandi abasirikare na polisi bagahembwa neza.
Abasirikare n’abapolisi bagomba gutozwa neza mu buryo bugezweho kandi n’abayobora biriya bice bagahindurwa kuko hari bamwe bakorana n’iriya mitwe.
J.A. Muri 2018 mwangiwe kwiyamamaza kubera impamvu zatanzwe n’Urukiko rushinzwe kurinda itegeko nshinga. Icyo gihe hari ku ngoma ya Kabila. Ese musanga bizabakundira muri iki gihe Tshisekedi ayobora?
Jean Pierre Bemba: Ntacyo nshaka kubivugaho.
J.A: Ese mwakwemeza ko mwisanga muri iki gihugu?, aha turashaka kubabaza niba mwumva ko aho mwajya hose muri iki gihugu abaturage babiyumvamo.
Jean Pierre Bemba: Kuvuga ku bijyanye n’inyungu zanjye mu gihe hari ibibazo byugarije abaturage, byaba ari kudashyira mu gaciro.
