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Opozisiyo, Mozambique, Uganda, Afurika Yunze Ubumwe…Ikiganiro Kagame Yahaye Al Jazeera

Yanditswe kuwa

Perezida wa Repubulika Paul Kagame aherutse guha ikiganiro kihariye umunyamakuru Ali Aldafiri wa Al Jazeera. Ni ikiganiro cyagarutse kuri Politiki y’u Rwanda, amateka yarwo nyuma ya Jenoside n’ibikorwa by’u Rwanda hanze yarwo harimo no muri Mozambique.

Ubwanditsi bwa Taarifa bwagishyize mu Kinyarwanda mu nyungu z’abasomyi bayo…

Umunyamakuru: Nyakubahwa Perezida tubashimiye ko mwemeye ubutumire bwacu kugira ngo tuganire, mukaba mwanatwakiriye mu Biro byanyu ngo tuganire.

Kagame: Murakaza neza

Umunyamakuru: Ndabyibuka kuko nari mfite imyaka icyenda kandi icyo gihe twese twumvaga u Rwanda nk’ahantu hahinduwe itongo n’ubwicanyi bwa Jenoside yahakorewe Abatutsi. Twabyumvaga mu makuru hirya no hino. Ubwo hari mu mpera z’umwaka wa 1994.

Uyu munsi ariko iki gihugu cyarahindutse kimeze neza, giteye imbere.

Ni izihe ngamba  mwakoresheje ngo muhindure igihugu kibe cyiza nk’uko tukibona muri iki gihe?

Kagame:  Mu by’ukuri twavuye kure hashoboka kuko navuga ko wagira ngo muri kiriya gihe u Rwanda rwari rwarazimye, rutakibaho! Ubu ariko urabibona ko duhari, kandi igihugu cyacu kiratekanye, kiri gutera imbere.

U Rwanda rwa none ruhuje abarutuye bose, kandi wibuke ko bigeze kubaho batumvikana, hari amacakubiri hagati yabo.

Ubu amajyambere turayafite ariko hari byinshi byo gukora mu gihe kiri imbere kugira ngo tugere aho dushaka kugera.

Ibanga ryatumye tugera aho turi muri ii gihe si irindi ahubwo ni ubushake bw’abaturage bwo gukora kugira ngo bave aho bahoze habi bagere aheza bihitiyemo mu mbaraga zabo batizigamye.

Ni umurimo Abanyarwanda bose bagiramo uruhare, buri wese akagira icyo akora cyangwa atanga kugira ngo u Rwanda rutere imbere.

Birumvikana ko hari abayobozi hakaba n’abaturage ariko bose barakorana hagamijwe ko politiki z’ubukungu zashyizweho zigera ku ntego igamije impinduka nziza mu mibereho y’abaturage.

Twe nk’abayobozi b’u Rwanda inshingano yacu ni ugushyiraho politiki zituma imibereho y’abaturage bacu iba myiza, kandi bigakorwa mu bufatanye hagamije iterambere ry’abaturage bose.

Umunyamakuru:  Iyo urebye umubare w’Abatutsi bazize Jenoside guhera muri Mata kugeza muri Nyakanga, 1994, ubona ko bitoroshye ko iyo paji mbi y’amateka yigizwayo. Ni iki mwakoze ngo mwivane muri ayo mateka mabi yaranze Abanyarwanda?

Kagame: Nigeze kukubwira ibyerekeye politiki nziza, nakubwiye ibyerekeye abaturage ndetse nanakubwiye imikorere y’abayobozi bakora k’uburyo ubuzima bw’abaturage buhinduka bityo bakubakira abaturage icyizere.

Ibi rero nibyo dushyiramo imbaraga nyinshi. Mu mahitamo yacu nasanze ntacyo watuveba ndetse n’ibyavuye muri ayo mahitamo yacu birivugira.

Umunyamakuru: Twakizezwa dute ko  u Rwanda rutazongera rugasubira mu icuraburindi rwigeze gucamo?

Kagame:  Impamvu iroroshye. Ni uko mu mikorere y’Abanyarwanda turi bo muri iki gihe, tudakora tugamije gusubira inyuma! Turakora tugamije kugera ku kindi kintu gitandukanye kure n’icyo. Ibyo dukora muri iki gihe tubikora k’uburyo bizaramba.

Bizaramba kubera ko nta muturage biheza, kandi buri wese yumva impamvu zo gukora ibyo akora ngo atere imbere, bizaramba kandi kubera ko bituma igihugu gitekana kuko gifite umusingi ukomeye ndetse n’inzego zikomeye.

Ndongeraho ko twatumye imyumvire y’abaturage bacu ihinduka, iba ya myumvire y’uko nta muntu bagombye kurambirizaho ngo kuko ari umukire azaza kubafasha kuko ari abakene.

Imyumvire y’Abanyarwanda b’iki gihe ni uko ntawe ugomba guterera agati mu ryinyo ngo ategereze ak’imuhana.

Twe Abanyarwanda twahisemo guhaguruka tugakora,  ntawe ducyesha amaramuko.

Birumvikana ko mu gukorana n’abandi, hari ubwo bamwe bazasanga ari ngombwa kudutera ingabo mu bitugu, ariko twe dushaka ko n’uwagira uwo mutima mwiza yaza agasanga hari icyo turi gukora, tuticaye gusa ngo duterere iyo!

Umunyamakuru: Nyakubahwa Perezida iyo muvuga ku ntego y’ibizagerwaho mu gihe kiri imbere, rwose biba ari ibintu byumvikana kandi bishyize mu gaciro. Ariko ubusanzwe impinduka zisaba igihe kandi mwe iyo muri kuvuga ku gihe kiri imbere, bisa n’aho mwizeye neza ko ibyo bintu ariko bizagenda. Ese mufite intego yo gukomeza kuyobora u Rwanda mu gihe kirekire?

Kagame: Kugira ngo nzamenye uko igihugu cyanjye kizaba gitera imbere, ntibizansaba ko nguma ku butegetsi. Erega muri iki gihe hari amajyambere twagezeho kandi ndayabona.  Gusa hari byinshi byiza tuzageraho, bidufitiye akamaro kandi birashoboka ko hari bimwe muri byo bizaba ntakiri ku butegetsi.

Gusa ndakwizeza ko Abanyarwanda bazabibona kandi babirinde. Icyo umbajije rero nagusubiza ko mu by’ukuri icyo atari ikintu gihambaye kuri njye.

Ibyo Abanyarwanda bagezeho, ibyo bazageraho mu gihe kiri imbere…ibyo ni ibintu bihambaye ndetse utagereranya nanjye ubwanjye. Kandi erega ni urugendo rw’iterambere.

Gusa nk’uko nigeze kubikomozaho mu kanya, ibizaba mu gihe kiri imbere byose bizaterwa n’ubushake bw’Abanyarwanda.

Umunyamakuru:  Ese Opozisiyo mu Rwanda yemerewe kuvuguruza Perezida na Guverinoma ye, kandi ikaba yakwiyamamariza kumusimbura binyuze mu matora?

Kagame: Opozisiyo irahari. Ubundi igisobanuro cya Opozisiyo ni uko ari ihuriro ry’abantu bafite ibitekerezo bitandukanye  n’iby’ubutegetsi buriho byerekeranye n’ubuyobozi ndetse n’ibibera mu gihugu. Iba ifite ukuntu kwayo ibona ibintu mu rwego rwa Politiki.

Kuri njye ariko nemera ko Opozisiyo zose aho ziva zikagera hari ikintu zihuriraho.

Icyo ni imibereho myiza y’abaturage n’umutuzo rusange mu gihugu. Kuri iyo ngingo nemera ko nta Opozisiyo yavuga ko itayiharanira.

Nta Opozisiyo yavuga ko ije gukuraho ubutegetsi ngo ishyireho ubuzana akaduruvayo mu baturage.

Ku byerekeye u Rwanda, nagira ngo nkubwire ko twigeze kugira Opozisiyo yitwaye kuriya. Mu mateka yacu twigeze kugira akaduruvayo kandi icyo gihe Opozisiyo ntacyo yakoze ngo kaveho ahubwo yakagizemo uruhare rutaziguye.

Iyo Jenoside mwumva na Opozisiyo yayigizemo uruhare.

Nta ruhande rwayo rwahagurutse ngo rwamagane iriya Jenoside.

Ucyeka ko byatewe n’iki?

Icyo nifuza ko wumva ni uko burya buri gihugu kigira ibyacyo, bigaterwa n’amateka yacyo, umuco w’abagituye ndetse n’ibibera hanze yacyo bishobora kukigiraho ingaruka.

Bityo rero, ntawe ukwiye gushyiraho urutonde ntakuka rw’ibyo ibihugu byose bigomba gukurikiza. Sinemera ko n’ibihugu bivuga ko ari ‘bandebereho muri Demukarasi’ byakwemera ko babishyirira ruriya rutonde.

Umunyamakuru:  Hari abavuga ko Perezida Kagame  ashaka kuzamura isura y’Afurika binyuze mu kwereka Abanyaburayi n’Amerika ko Afurika ifite uko ibona ibintu, amahame n’indangagaciro zayo. Gusa ariko murabizi ko Abanyaburayi n’Abanyamerika bayoboye isi. Ni gute mwitwara kuri iyi ngingo?

Kagame: Iyo uvuga kuri Afurika no ku mateka yayo ndetse n’uko ibintu byifashe muri iki gihe, ukagaruka ku buyobozi n’imiyoborere hari ibyo uba utagomba kwirengagiza. Nta na rimwe abantu babaho ibyo bakora muri icyo gihe bidafite aho bihurira n’amateka yabo.

Ntabwo ibibazo abantu bafite muri iki gihe wavuga ko byazindutse bitangira, burya biba bifite amateka bikomokamo.

Ibyo bibazo kandi akenshi ntabiba bireba babandi batubwira ibyo dukwiye n’ibyo tudakwiye gukora.

Ibibazo byacu tugomba kubyemera gutyo, ibyo twagizemo uruhare tukabyemera uko, ntawe Abanyafurika  bagomba guhora bashinja kuba nyirabayazana w’ibibazo byabo.

Icyo ntawe ukwiriye kugitindaho!

Ntawe ukwiye kubihunga, ariko ku rundi ruhande Abanyafurika ntibagombye kurenza ingohe ibibi byabagizeho ingaruka bikozwe n’abatari Abanyafurika.

Nonese ni gute nakwemera ko amabwiriza y’abo bantu ngomba kuba ari yo ngenderwaho buri gihe uko ngiye kugira icyo nanzura cyangwa nkora?

Ibibi bakoze bikangiraho ingaruka nkabiceceka, hanyuma ngakurikiza kandi nkubahiriza ibyo bantegeka kandi nabo barakoze amakosa asa cyangwa aruta ayo nakoze.

Umunyamakuru:  Hari ibibazo bimaze iminsi hagati y’u Rwanda na Uganda byatangiye muri Werurwe, 2019. Ese ubu twavuga ko hari intambwe yatewe ngo bicyemuke? Ese musanga umubano mubi waragize izihe ngaruka mu Karere?

Kagame: Ntabwo ibintu birakemuka. Hari ibyo tutarashyira ku murongo neza. Impande zombi zigomba kubigiramo uruhare kandi nizera ko ibihugu byombi bizakomeza mu mujyo wo gushaka ibisubizo birambye.

Twese twumva neza impamvu z’ikibazo kandi rero birumvikana ko tugomba no gushaka ibisubizo kuri ibi bibazo byavutse mu gihe gito gishize.

Umunyamakuru: Nyakubahwa Perezida musanga kutumvikana hagati yanyu na Uganda gushingiye kuki?

Kagame: Twabonye uburyo bwinshi bwo kuganira na Uganda kuri ibi bibazo kandi mu buryo buzira imbereka.

Ndakubwira ko hari ibintu bibiri bikomeye: Icya mbere ni uko umupaka wacu na bariya baturanyi ufunze. Hari bamwe batubwira ngo tuwufungure abantu bacuruze, kandi birumvikana kuko ni ubucuruzi.

Kuri twe ariko, icyo abantu bagomba kwibaza mbere ni icyatumye umupaka ufungwa.

Higeze kubaho igihe Abanyarwanda bahuraga n’akaga bagiye muri Uganda kwikorera ubucuruzi no gusura inshuti. Ubuyobozi bwo muri Uganda bukabahigisha uruhindu, abafashwe bukabakorera ibya mfura mbi.

Ubu buyobozi bukavuga ko bubafata kubera impamvu zirimo no kuhateza umutekano mucye .

Twaje kwerekana ko mu by’ukuri ibikorerwa Abanyarwanda bajya muri Uganda bidaterwa n’uko bajyayo guhungabanya umutekano ahubwo ko ari uburyo bwo kubahohotera no kubahoza ku nkeke.

Gusa abaturage ba Uganda bo iyo baje mu Rwanda nta kibazo bagira, barishyira bakizana.

Ku byerekeye rero kuba umupaka ufunze nakubwira ko ubusanzwe umupaka ubereyeho abantu, abinjira n’abasohoka.

Umunyamakuru: Kubera iki hari bamwe muhitamo gukorana nabo muri aka karere bigasa n’aho Kagame ashaka kwigarurira aka gace ngo ahagire ijambo. Hari abavuga ko  ibyo gufunga umupaka bifite aho  bihuriye no gushaka guhima abatuye Uganda.

Kagame: Ntacyo mbizi ho, ntawe nshaka kuvugira ibyo atavuze. Ibindeba nibyo mvuga.

Umunyamakuru: Ese muri iki gihe muracyavugana na Perezida Museveni, mukaganira?

Kagame: Twajyaga tubikora ariko bisa n’aho muri iki gihe byahagaze.

Umunyamakuru:  Hashize igihe kinini se?

Kagame: Hashize igihe gito. Kandi erega kuba twavugana ubwabyo si cyo kibazo ahubwo ikibazo ni ukuvuga hagamijwe gushyira ibintu mu buryo. Bitabaye ibyo se, kuvugana kwaba ari ukw’iki?

Umunyamakuru: Ingabo z’u Rwanda ziri mu kahe kazi muri Mozambique no muri Centrafrique. Ese zizamarayo igihe kingana gute?

Kagame: Ku byerekeye Mozambique  navuga ko ikibazo cy’aho twagicyemuye nk’Abanyafurika, nk’inshuti. Abaturage ba kiriya gihugu bahuye n’ingorane baratwitabaza nk’abavandimwe tubatabara uko dushoboye kandi intambwe twagezeho irafatika.

Hejuru y’ibi rero, ibizakorwa nyuma bizashingira n’ubundi ku biganiro hagati y’ibihugu byombi birebwa n’iki kibazo.

Uko ibintu bizaba bimeze muri kiriya gihe nibyo bizagena ikizakorwa.

Umunyamakuru: Ingabo z’u Rwanda zizamara igihe kingana gute muri Mozambique cyane cyane ko mushobora kubirekera Abanya Mozambique bagasigara babiha umurongo?

Kagame: Nakubwiraga mu kanya ko byose tuzabiganiraho, tukareba igicyenewe bitewe n’uko ibintu bizaba bimeze. Ntabwo wakwihandagaza ngo uvuge ko ibintu bizaba byarasubiye mu buryo kuri iyi tariki cyangwa muri uyu mwaka.

Abo muri Mozambique nibo bitabaje inshuti, badusaba gukorana nabo ndetse banabisabye abo muri SADC . Hari byinshi byo kuganirwaho kugira ngo harebwe ikizakorwa nyuma kandi rwose ibyo ntabwo ari ikibazo gihambaye.

Umunyamakuru: Mwigeze kuyobora Umuryango w’Afurika yunze ubumwe, mutangiza imishinga myinshi irimo n’ubucuruzi buhuza ibihugu by’Afurika. Ariko se ni ibihe bibazo mubona Afurika yahuye nabyo byatumye ubucuruzi bwayo butazamuka ku rwego rwiza ngo ireke guhora iteze amaso ku bucuruzi bukorerwa i Burayi?

Kagame: Ubusanzwe Abanyafurika bagomba gukorana, ni nayo mpamvu hariho Umuryango w’Afurika yunze ubumwe. Ubwo nashingwaga kuyobora uriya Muryango ndetse na mbere yabyo na nyuma yabyo, buri gihe twemera ko icy’ingenzi ari uko Afurika ikorera hamwe.

Ni ugukorera hamwe haba mu mutekano, ubucuruzi ndetse yewe ikaba iri kumwe no mu bihe byo guhangana na bya bibazo twavuze haruguru bikunze kuyibaho batayiturutseho ndetse n’ibiyiturutse nticikemo ibice.

Umunyamakuru: Ariko hari abantu bavuga ibibazo byinshi bigera muri Afurika biba bituruka hanze yayo. Ikibazo ni ikihe?

Kagame: Reka twibaze kuri icyo kandi tugire icyo tucyemeranyaho. Ese ubundi mu by’ukuri bituruka hanze y’Afurika cyangwa? Ariko reka tuvuge ko byaturutse no muri Afurika imbere. Erega burya aho byaturuka hose, icy’ingenzi ni uko abantu bakorana kugira ngo babicyemure.

Si ngombwa ko buri gihe duterana ngo ducyemure ibibazo twatewe n’abandi, ahubwo tugomba no guterana kugira ngo ducyemure ibyadukomotsemo.

Umunyamakuru: Iyo musubije amaso inyuma mukibuka ubuzima mwabayemo  bw’impunzi, ni iki kibaza mu mutwe?

Kagame: Iyo nibutse biriya bihe nibuka ubukene, kutiha icyo ushaka,  ishusho inza mu mutwe ni ishusho yo kudatuza ndetse no mu gihe nari umwana w’imyaka ine ubwo njye n’umuryango wanjye twahungiraga muri Uganda.

Uko nakuraga rero n’ubwonko bwanjye ntibwigeze bwibagirwa ibyo naciyemo byose.

Umunyamakuru: Mu mateka, abantu baje kubona ko Afurika ari umugabane w’ibibazo. Muri iki gihe hari byinshi Abanyafurika bigejejeho. Ese mubona ishusho mbi Abanyafurika bari bafite muri iki gihe yarahindutse?

Kagame: Njye nibona nk’umuntu usanzwe ariko w’Umunyarwanda, w’Umunyafurika. Bityo rero ibibazo byose twahuye kandi tuzahura nabyo ni ibibazo tugomba guhangana nabyo.

Tugomba guhangana nabyo ntawe twise nyirabayazana cyangwa ngo dutange impamvu z’urwitwazo.

Ni ngombwa ko tubikora tubwikorera, tutabikora ngo hagire udushima.

Uko mbyitwaramo kuri mu mujyo umwe n’uko abandi Banyafurika benshi bikora kandi babikoze.

Ibibazo byose uhuye nabyo uba ugomba kubishakira igisubizo, ntawe ubyitiriye.

Iki ni igice cya mbere cy’ikiganiro Perezida Paul Kagame yahaye  Al Jazeera.

Al Jazeera ni televiziyo yo muri Qatar, iki gihugu kikaba ari inshuti y’u Rwanda.

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