Ubwumvikane Bwa Nsabimana 'Sankara', Impaka kuri Rusesabagina …Ikiganiro na Me Nkundabarashi Uyobora Abavoka - Taarifa
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Ubwumvikane Bwa Nsabimana ‘Sankara’, Impaka kuri Rusesabagina …Ikiganiro na Me Nkundabarashi Uyobora Abavoka

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Me Nkundabarashi mu kiganiro na Taarifa.rw

Urubanza rwa Nsabimana Callixte ‘Sankara’, Paul Rusesabagina na bagenzi babo rurasatira iherezo kuko Urukiko rw’Ubujurire ruzatangaza umwanzuro ntakuka ku wa 21 Werurwe 2022, saa tatu.

Ni imwe mu ngingo zavuzwe cyane mu mezi ashize, kugeza ubwo Umubiligi Me Vincent Lurquin w’imyaka 62 yinjiye mu Rwanda avuga ko ari mu bukerarugendo, yambara ikanzu ajya mu rukiko ariko yirukanwa mu gihugu shishi itabona.

Mu kiganiro cyihariye na Perezida w’Urugaga rw’Abavoka mu Rwanda, Me Nkundabarashi Moïse, nyuma y’uruzinduko aherukamo mu Bubiligi yagarutse ku ngingo zitandukanye n’icyerekezo afitiye urugaga yatorewe kuyobora ku wa 12 Ugushyingo 2021.

Taarifa: Urugaga ruhagaze rute muri iki gihe?

Me Nkundabarashi: Urugaga ruhagaze neza, byaba ibijyanye no kureberera abavoka barugize ndetse no gukurikirana ishyirwa mu bikorwa ry’amahame y’umwuga, bihagaze neza. Imirimo iragenda, turabona ibintu bimeze neza nk’uko byari bisanzwe, nta kibazo gihari.

Abavoka barakora, birumvikana bahuye n’ibibazo bitandukanye bya COVID-19 ariko ntibyababujije gukora inshingano zabo.

Umuntu yakwishimira ko urugaga rumaze kugera ahantu hashimishije kuko rushingwa mu 1997 rwari rufite abavoka 35 gusa, ubu dufite abavoka barenga 1500. hari bamwe bava mu mwuga kubera impamvu zitandukanye, ariko tukagira 1300 n’imisago ubu bari gukora.

Taarifa: Hashize igihe gito mutorewe kuyobora Urugaga. Ni iki muteganya muri manda yanyu?

Me Nkundabarashi: Dukeneye gushaka uburyo dukorana nk’abavoka hakoreshejwe ikoranabuhanga, ni ikintu kimwe nifuza gushyiramo imbaraga. N’ubwo dufite ‘systems’ zimwe na zimwe dukoresha zidufasha kugira ngo tumenye uko bakora no kubaha serivisi bakeneye, ariko turifuza kurushaho kuzinoza.

Ikindi turifuza kwita cyane ku bijyanye n’ubunyamwuga kuko ni ikintu cy’ingenzi, kandi ni inshingano yacu y’ingenzi nk’urugaga. Hakaba hari ibyo turimo gutekereza gushyiraho bijyanye n’ishuri rijyanye no kwigisha abavoka.

Ikindi turi gushyiramo imbaraga muri iyi minsi ni ukugerageza gukemura ibibazo bivuka hagati y’abavoka n’abakiliya [bishingiye mu masezerano baba bagiranye], nabyo biri mu nshingano z’urugaga.

Ikindi ni ugukangurira abavoka kugira uruhare mu kurwanya ibyaha byose bitandukanye, harimo na ruswa.

Taarifa : Ruswa ihagaze ite mu bavoka ?

Me Nkundabarashi: Hari amadosiye amwe n’amwe yagiye agaragara ko hari abavoka bagiye babigiramo uruhare, ariko kugeza ubu twabonye ibibazo bigera ku munani aho abavoka bakurikiranywe kuri ibyo byaha, ariko bane bagizwe abere, abandi bane bahamwa n’ibyo byaha.

Abo rero bahamijwe ibyo byaha uyu munsi ntabwo bakiri abavoka, kandi iyo umuntu yahamijwe icyaha nk’icyo akanakatirwa igihano cye, ntabwo agaruka mu rugaga.

Ibyo ni ibyagaragaye mu myaka 25 ishize, byumvikana ko ariko twakwifuje ko nta n’umwe ufatirwa muri ibyo bikorwa, kuko ubundi abantu batanga ubutabera ni bo bagombye kuba intangarugero.

Taarifa : Mu minsi ishize wagiriye uruzinduko mu Bubiligi no mu Bufaransa, uhura n’abayobora ingaga zaho. Hari amasomo wavanyeyo ?

Me Nkundabarashi: Urugendo rwanjye rwari rugamije gutsura umubano na ziriya ngaga ndetse tunashimangire uwo twari dusanganywe. Nk’urugaga rwa Liège dufitanye imikoranire myiza kandi twemeranyije kuyikomeza.

Ziriya ngaga, inyinshi zimaze imyaka irenga 100 mu gihe urugaga rwacu muri uyu mwaka aribwo tuzizihiza isabukuru y’imyaka 25. Urumva rero hari ibintu byinshi bakora cyangwa se bagezeho twebwe tutarageraho. Natanga urugero, muri izi ngaga bafite ikintu bita École du Barreau, ishuri ry’abavoka.

Ariko ikindi nabonye ni uko nabo bafite ibyo batwigiraho, nganira nabo aho hose nasanze nta na hamwe bafite ikoranabuhanga ribafasha gutanga ibirego cyangwa gukorana n’inkiko banyuze kuri internet.

Ugeze nka Liège twaganiriye na Perezida w’Urugaga rwaho, mwereka ikoranabuhanga dufite, kuri mudasobwa yanjye mwereka ko amadosiye yanjye nshobora kuyakurikirana ndi i Bruxelles, arambwira ati ‘ibyo ni ibintu bikomeye.’

Taarifa: Mutekereza ko ari ryari iri shuri ry’abavoka rizagera mu Rwanda ?

Me Nkundabarashi: Ni umushinga urimo kwigwaho, kuri ubu nkaba ntabasha guhita nkubwira igihe byatwara ariko ni imwe mu ntego dufite kandi twifuza ko ryajyaho mu gihe cya vuba.

Taarifa : Mwagiye mu Bubiligi mu gihe urubanza rwa Rusesabagina rukomeje guteza impaka kubera ko abavoka b’aho bangiwe kumwunganira. Hari icyo bigeze babikubazaho ?

Me Nkundabarashi: Hari amahame agenga uburyo abavoka bashobora kuva mui gihugu kimwe bakajya gukorera mu kindi.

Rimwe muri ayo mahame rikomeye kurusha n’ayandi ni ihame rya ‘réciprocité’, ni ukuvuga amasezerano hagati y’ingaga cyangwa ubwumvikane butuma umwavoka ava mu Rwanda akajya gukorera mu gihugu runaka, cyangwa umwavoka wo muri icyo gihugu akaba yaza gukorera umwuga we hano mu Rwanda.

Icyabaye rero ni uko Urugaga rwacu bikimara kugaragara, twandikiye urugaga rwa Bruxelles turababwira ngo ‘turifuza ko mutumenyesha niba abavoka bacu nabo baza aho ngaho’. Igisubizo rero baduhaye, batubwiye ko abemerewe kuburanira i Bruxelles ari abavoka bo mu Ubumwe bw’u Burayi (EU) gusa.

Ni ukuvuga ngo ibyo byari bisobanuye ko njyewe uyu munsi cyangwa undi mwavoka w’Umunyarwanda utari umwavoka wujuje ibisabwa na Bruxelles akaba ariho yarahiriye, bidashoboka nko yabona icyemezo cy’Urugaga rw’aho ngo abe yajya kuburana mu rukiko rwaho.

Icyabaye rero ni uko, niba bo batemera ko umwe mu bagize Urugaga rwacu ajya kuburaniraho, natwe ntabwo twari kwemera ko umwe mu bagize izo ngaga zabo, aburanira mu Rwanda.

Icyo twaganiriye ni uko abavoka bakwiye kubahiriza amategeko, tunemeranya ko kuganira bigomba gukomeza, kugira ngo turebe uko twafasha abavoka baba bifuza gukorera umwuga ku mpande zombi, wenda hakazabaho n’ubwo bwumvikane mu gihe byaba bigaragaye ko ‘koko biri ngombwa.’

Taarifa : Umubiligi Me Vincent Lurquin yaje kugaragara mu rukiko ashaka kunganira Rusesabagina, yirukanwa mu gihugu. Byo mwabiganiriyeho cyangwa ibivugwa ko yimwe abunganizi yihitiyemo?

Me Nkundabarashi: Ibiganiro by’ibanze byari ibyo gukomeza imikoranire, amahugurwa, abavoka bakaba bajyayo bagakora amahugurwa bakagaruka, ndetse n’ubungubu hari bamwe muri abo bavoka ba Liège bazaza gukoresha amahugurwa hano ku bintu bijyanye no gukoresha Artificial Intelligence mu bijyanye n’ikoranabuhanga mu mategeko.

Ku bijyanye no kuvuga ko twaganiriye kuri icyo kibazo cyo kuvuga ngo umuntu wabo afungiwe hano, ntafite abamwunganira, ntabwo twigeze tubyinjiramo cyane.

Usibye ko Rusesabagina afite n’abamwungaira! Afite abavoka babiri b’Urugaga rw’u Rwanda bafite ubunararibonye, barimo n’uwahoze ari umuyobozi w’Urugaga k’uburyo ntekereza ko ikibazo cyo kunganirwa gishobora kuba atari cyo kibazo.

N’izo mpaka zo kuvuga ko atunganirwa n’abavoka yihitiyemo ziba ziburanwa n’abavoka k’uburyo ntekereza ko ikibazo mu by’ukuri atari ukunganirwa, wenda hashobora kuba hari ikindi kibazo.

Taarifa : Mwakiriye mute imyitwarire ya Me Lurquin ?

Me Nkundabarashi : Twebwe icyo tubibonamo ni uko ari amakosa y’umwuga, kandi twaranabibamenyesheje, tubabwira ko ari amakosa y’umwuga yagombaga gukurikiranwa, ndetse hano ho bikaba byanafatwa nk’icyaha.

Kuko ubundi kwambara uriya mwambaro bituma abaturage bakureba bakubona ko uri umwavoka, kandi kwiyitirira ko uri umwavoka ni icyaha, mu yandi magambo ni ukuyobya rubanda.

Twabamenyesheje ko ari ikibazo gikomeye kandi cyakagombye kuba cyarahanwe ku ruhande rwabo, ariko kugeza ubu ntabwo tuzi niba hari ibyemezo bazafata.

Taarifa : Mu rubanza wunganiyemo Nsabimana Sankara mu ifungurwa n’ifungurwa ry’agateganyo no mu rwego rwa mbere, yavuzemo ubwumvikane mwagiranye n’Ubushinjacyaha ngo afashe iperereza, azagabanyirizwe ibihano. Byagenze bite?

Me Nkundabarashi : Ubundi kuvuga ku kibazo kikiri mu rukiko ntabwo tubyemerewe, ariko kuba hari ahantu urubanza rugeze, nakubwira ku gice cyarangiye.

Byemewe n’amategeko ko umuntu ukurikiranyweho icyaha ashobora kumvikana n’Ubushinjacyaha, kwemera icyaha, agasobanura uko cyakozwe, agafasha ubutabera bukabona amakuru yose bukeneye, hanyuma bukayaheraho butanga ikirego cyangwa bukora n’andi maperereza, na we akabigiramo inyungu.

Niwe wunganira Callixte Nsabimana Sankara

Inyungu aba abifitemo kenshi na kenshi ni uko aba ari buze guhabwa igihano kigabanyije.

Ibi rero muri uru rubanza uvuga, byabayeho. Kandi mu by’ukuri iyo urebye ukuntu byagenze, njye ku ruhande rwanjye ntekereza ko byakozwe nk’uko byagombaga gukorwa.

Ndashaka kuvuga ko ibyaha uwo nunganiraga Nsabimana Callixte yari akurikiranyweho, byari ibyaha bihanishwa igihano cya burundu. Urukiko rukuru rwafashe icyemezo rumugabanyiriza igihano, rukigeza ku myaka 20.

Ariko noneho muri uru rubanza hanagaragayemo icyo nakwita icyemezo gikomeye, gishimangira ihame ry’ubwigenge bw’abacamanza mu bijyanye no kugabanya ibihano, kuko mu mategeko yacu ubundi igihano cya burundu kiba gishobora kugabanyuka kikagera ku myaka 25. Ngira ngo ni nayo ubushinjacyaha bwari bwasabye.

Nabo ntabwo babikoze mu buryo bunyuranyije n’amategeko kuko hariho ibyemezo by’Urukiko rw’Ikirenga byari byarafashwe mbere, biri gukoreshwa ubungubu, abacamanza bagenda babishingiraho.

Taarifa : Ni izihe ngaruka zihariye icyorezo cya COVID-19 kimaze kugira ku Rugaga rw’Abavoka ?

Me Nkundabarashi : Kugeza uyu munsi twapfushije abavoka babiri bazize COVID-19. Ntabwo ari ingaruka nke kuko n’ubwo yaba umuntu umwe aba ari mwinshi, ariko twagerageje kwirinda uko bishoboka kose nk’abavoka, no mu butumwa tubagenera tubabwira ko kwirinda COVID ari ingenzi cyane.

Ingaruka zindi rero umuntu atareka kuvuga ni ibibazo bitandukanye COVID-19 itera, imikorere ntabwo ikiri icyo umuntu yavuga ko ari nk’uko byahoze, byarahindutse.

Kugira ngo abantu bajye aho imanza zibera, mu magereza, abavoka bisaba ko bipimisha, ku mikorere y’umwuga nabyo k’uburyo bw’ubukungu bifite icyo bivuze. Yego icyo kiguzi kenshi hari ubwo cyishyurwa na ba nyiri imanza, ariko nabo bagizweho ingaruka mu bijyanye n’ubukungu muri rusange byarahungabanye.

Taarifa : Me Nkundabarashi ni muntu ki ?

Me Nkundabarashi : Muri rusange, ndi Umunyarwanda, ndubatse, mfite imyaka 40. Navutse icyo gihe muri 1981 ababyeyi banjye bari barahungiye i Burundi, ariko ubu baragarutse, mfite amahirwe yo kuba nkibafite.

Ku bijyanye n’umwuga, maze imyaka 12 ndi umwavoka, nkorera umwuga wanye muri cabinet yitwa Trust Law Chambers, ikigo navuga cy’abanyamategeko babigize umwuga gikorera hano Kacyiru, mfatanyije na bagenzi banjye turi 15.

Taarifa : Ni izihe manza ukunda kuburana ?

Me Nkundabarashi: Cabinet yacu ifite umwihariko wo kuburana imanza z’ubucuruzi, ni nazo manza naburanye kenshi, ariko nkunda kubwira abantu dukunda kuganira mu rurimi rw’Icyongereza ngo “I do commercial for business, and I do criminal for passion” (mburana imanza z’ubucuruzi nk’akazi, nkaburana imanza z’inshinjabyaha kubera kubikunda).

Kubera impamvu imwe y’uko ubutabera nshinjabyaha burya ni kimwe mu bintu bikomeye cyane bishobora guha ukunyurwa umwavoka ubikora kinyamwuga, abishaka, abikunze.

Ntushobora kumva ibyishimo ngira iyo menye ko umukiliya nunganiye wenda yageze aho arekurwa, akagira uburenganzira bwo kwidegembya, ni ikintu gihebuje utagira uburyo ukibara mu buryo bw’amafaranga, ni ikintu kinini.

Rero iyo bikozwe kandi bigakorwa neza numva ko nabigizemo uruhare, numva ko biba birenze kuba umuntu yabikora nk’umurimo ukora ukaguhemba ukabona ubuzima busanzwe bugufasha gutera imbere muri sosiyete.

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