Umwanditsi akaba n’umunyamakuru Patrick de Saint-Exupéry aherutse kwandika igitabo yise La Traversée. Avuga ko ibyabaye muri Repubulika ya Demukarasi ya Kongo mu myaka ya 1996 kugeza 2001 bitakwitwa Jenoside, ahubwo ko ari ibintu bibabaje kandi biteye ubwoba . Ni mu kiganiro yahaye The Africa Report, Taarifa yabashyiriye mu Kinyarwanda:
1.Muri Nzeri, 1994 uwari Perezida w’u Bufaransa François Mitterrand yabwiye Abakuru b’ibihugu byari byitabiriye inama yabereye ahitwa Biarritz ko mu Rwanda habaye ‘Jenoside’. Ese ibi nibyo byababereye imbarutso yo kwandika ibyerekeye Jenoside yakorewe Abatutsi mu Rwanda n’uruhare rw’u Bufaransa muri yo?
Patrick de Saint-Exupéry: François Mitterrand ndibuka ko yari ahagaze ahirengeye mu nzu mberabyombi yari yahuriwemo n’abakuru b’ibihugu barimo na Mobutu wategekaga Zaïre yo muri kiriya gihe. Icyo gihe kandi Mobutu niwe wari umushyitsi mukuru. Igitangaje ni uko mu ijambo yavuze yakoresheje Jenoside mu buke ariko mu mbwirwaruhame yanditse ho harimo ko mu Rwanda habaye za Jenoside[mu bwinshi]. Twe abanyamakuru baduhaye kopi yayo turabyirebera.
Nabajije mu by’ukuri niba muri kiriya gihugu harabaye Jenoside imwe cyangwa harabaye nyinshi ariko sinigeze nsubizwa. Ngayo ng’uko!
2.François Mitterrand yagusubije ngo iki niba waramubajije icyo kibazo?
Patrick de Saint-Exupéry: Niba nibuka neza ndibuka ko mbere yo kunsubiza nawe yabanje arambaza. Ibi byanyeretse ko atari afite igisubizo nyacyo kuri iki kibazo. Yansubije mu buryo butarasa ku ntego, ancisha hirya no hino, nyuma arongera arambaza. Yakoze ako ashoboye arasubiza ariko ukumva ko ari guca ibintu ku ruhande.
Ntibyatinze arongera arambaza. Ikiganiro n’abanyamakuru kirangiye, negereye abagab babiri barimo Bruno Delaye na Dominique Pin bari bashinzwe ibibazo by’Afurika mu biro by’Umukuru w’igihugu kugira ngo bagire icyo basubiza kubyo nari nabajije Perezida ariko ntansubize neza nabo barantwama, kuko byasaga n’aho nabarakaje.
Mu ruhame aho ngaho, bararakaye cyane bambwira nabi, abantu barumirwa! Kubaza ikibazo cyumvikana kandi gikeneye igisubizo nibyo byabariye ahantu barandakarira.
Biratangaje kuba nyuma y’icyo gihe kugeza n’ubu haratangiye kandi hagikomeje ubukangurambaga buvuga ko mu Rwanda habaye Jenoside ebyiri.
Iby’ubu bukangurambaga nigeze kubyandikaho imirongo mike mu gitabo nise L’inavouable. Nanze kubyandikaho byinshi kuko nabonaga ko bitaragira intera ikomeye ariko mu myaka mike ishize byongeye gufata intera ndetse irenze iyo byahoranye.
Iyi niyo mpamvu yatumye nongera kwicara ngo nsesengure ibyabaye muri kiriya gihe maze ndebe ishingiro ry’ibyo bariya bemeza.
3.Mu ntangiriro y’igitabo cyanyu hari aho muvuga ‘intangiriro itagira rutangira’. Ese ijambo rya Mitterand niryo mwashakaga kuvuga?
Patrick de Saint-Exupéry: Yego. Iyo usuzumye ibyakurikiyeho ubona ko ririya jambo ryabaye intangiriro itagira rutangira kuko mu magambo ye, François Mitterrand yasobanuye ibintu k’uburyo abamwumvise bakemera ibyo yavuze kiriya gihe banyuzwe nabyo bahitamo ko kugendera ku murongo we.
4.Mu mpera za 1996 abasirikare b’u Rwanda batangije intambara mu Burasirazuba bwa Repubilika ya Demukarasi ya Kongo bagamije guca intege Interahamwe n’abasirikare bari barasize bakoze Jenoside mu Rwanda. Icyo gihe basenye inkambi zabo bamwe barataha, abandi bakomereza ahandi muri Zaïre ya kiriya gihe. Mubona biriya byari bikwiye?
Patrick de Saint-Exupéry: Muri kiriya gihe byari bikwiye ko ziriya nkambi zisenywa kuko mu bantu bagera kuri miliyoni ebyiri bari bazirimo, abenshi bari Abahutu b’Intagondwa bari barasize bakoze Jenoside muri 1994. Ikindi ni uko batagezeyo ngo batuze ahubwo bakomeje kugaba ibitero shuma mu Rwanda kugira ngo bakore uko bashoboye baruteshe umurongo. Mu magambo yabo, bavugaga ko bashaka kurangiza akazi, ako kazi yari Jenoside bakoreye Abatutsi.
Iyo urebye usanga abantu bari bayoboye iyo ngengabitekerezo yo kugaruka bakarangiza akazi bari abagizi ba nabi basize bakoze Jenoside yakorewe Abatutsi. Bari bagize itsinda rya mbere rinini ku isi ry’abagizi ba nabi muri kiriya gihe.
Ikindi ni uko abize muri bo, bahisemo gukoresha ibinyamakuru mpuzamahanga bavuga ko mu Rwanda habaye Jenoside ebyiri, ni ukuvuga iyakorewe Abatutsi n’iyakorewe Abahutu.
Kuvuga ko hari iyakorewe Abahutu bwari uburyo bwo kumvikanisha ko nabo ari inzirakarengane kandi mu by’ukuri ari bo basize bayikoze.
5.Ko hashize imyaka 25 mutangiye kwandika muvuguruza ibyo bariya bantu bavuga, ni iki cyababiteye?
Patrick de Saint-Exupéry: Ubwo nasohoraga igitabo L’inavouable [The Unmentionable] muri 2004, ntabwo iby’uko habaye Jenoside ebyiri nigeze mbitindaho.
Uko imyaka yahitaga nabonye ko iriya mvugo igenda ikura kandi igatizwa umurindi na bamwe mu bakoraga muri UN, byarantangaje ndetse birushaho kuntangaza ubwo hasohokaga icyo bise ‘Mapping Report’ kigatangira kwimerwa nk’Ivanjiri.
Nta kubeshye natangiye kwibaza niba kuba ntakora ubushakashatsi ngo menye ukuri kw’ibivugwa atari ubugwari! Nahise ntangira akazi, ndashakashaka kandi erega nari mfite n’uburyo bwo kubikora ni ukuvuga amafaranga n’umwanya uhagije. Nahise ntangira rero!
6. Reka tuvuga kuri Mapping Report, yatangiye kuvugwaho muri 2010. Abayikoze wasanze bari bafite izihe nshingano? Ese bari bande? Bageze ku yihe myanzuro?
Patrick de Saint-Exupéry:Iriya raporo yakozwe n’Ishami ry’Umuryango w’abibumbye rishinzwe uburenganzira bwa muntu. Ntekereza ko ari igikorwa cyashyizwemo amafarnga menshi kandi raporo yaje ari ngari kuko yakozwe n’abashinzwe iperereza benshi ariko amazina yabo ntiyatangajwe.
Umugambi w’ibanze wari uwo gutangaza amakuru arambuye yaranze ibyabaye muri DRC guhera muri 1993 kugeza 2003. Nta murongo usobanutse wari muri iriya raporo. Abakongomani twavuganye ubwo nakoraga ubushakashatsi kuri iki kibazo, bampaye ubuhamya bw’ibyo biboneye. Amakuru bampaye ahabanye n’akubiye muri Mapping Report. Bisa n’aho ibyanditse muri iriya raporo twabigereranya no gushaka kwandika amateka y’ibyabaye i Waterloo ukabyandika nk’aho uvuga ibyabereye i Auschwitz.
7.Nonese mwasanze ibivugwa muri iriya raporo by’uko habayeho Jenoside ebyiri bifite ishingiro?
Patrick de Saint-Exupéry: Jenoside yabereye mu Rwanda ni ikintu udashobora kugereranya n’andi mahano yose yabereye mu isi kuva twamenya kwandika amateka. Umuntu udafite amaso n’amatwi bireba neza niwe wavuga ko ibyo abarokotse iriya Jenoside bavuga ari ibinyoma!
Muri DRC rwose nabonye ko habereye ibintu bibabaje kandi biteye ubwoba, ariko ntiwavuga ko ari Jenoside. Ibyabereye muri DRC birababaje ariko si Jenoside. Icyo abantu bagomba kukimenya kandi bakacyemera.
Ibyo naboneye mu bushakashatsi bwanjye nta hantu na hamwe nari buhere mvuga ko ibyabereye muri DRC ari Jenoside
8. Abantu mwahuye ariko ntekereza ko bavugaga ibintu byinshi kandi bitandukanye. Aho ntibaba barakubeshye ugereranyije n’uko Abanyaburayi n’Abanyamerika bamwe bandika?
Patrick de Saint-Exupéry: Ni gute nari kwemera ibyo Hubert Védrine na Alain Juppé bo mu Bufaransa bavugaga kurusha uko nakwemera iby’Umukongomani wari uri aho ibintu byabereye?
Védrine na Juppé nasanze batazi gutandukanye Jenoside n’ubundi bwicanyi. Sinzi niba babikora kubera kubyirengagiza nkana cyangwa ari ukubigiraho ubumenyi buke!
Abakongomani bo bambwiraga ibintu biboneye, babayemo kandi bazi umuzi n’umuhamo wabyo. Si kimwe n’Abazungu b’i Paris, Brussels, New York…
9. Guhera muri 2010 ubwo Mapping Report yasohokaga, hari abantu benshi bayuririyeho bakora filimi n’ibitabo bivuga ko muri Congo habaye indi Jenoside. Ese abo bantu waba warashoboye kubavugisha?
Patrick de Saint-Exupéry: Erega iriya raporo ntirangiye kandi sintekereza ko izanarangira kandi sinjye wagombye kubaza icyo kibazo ahubwo ni abayikoze. Sinakwemeza ko ibiyirimo byose ari ibinyoma ariko nanone wakwibaza ishingiro rya raporo itavuga amazina y’abatangabuhamya, ntivuge amazina niyo yaba make y’abayikoze. Iyo ikintu kije gitanga amakuru arimo urujijo, birumvikana ko ishingiro ryayo makuru naryo rikemangwa.
Nta nyungu nasanze mu kuba nashakisha amakuru y’uburyo yakozwe ahubwo inyungu kuri njye zari ugufata ibiyivugwamo nkabihuza n’ibyo nibarije abaturage babonye ibyabaye muri DRC ubundi nkandika.
10. Ni iki cyatumye u Rwanda rufasha Laurent-Désiré Kabila wari wateye Zaïre?
Patrick de Saint-Exupéry: Nahuye na Jenerali James Kabarebe wari Minisitiri w’ingabo turaganira. Nabaga namusanze i Kigali. Yambwiye ko umugambi w’ingabo z’u Rwanda ku ikubitiro wari uwo gusenya inkambi z’Interahamwe zari zarasize zikoze Jenoside mu Rwanda kandi zikaba zari zifite n’uwo gukomeza gutesha umutekano Abanyarwanda.
Mu ntambara yabereye muri DRC ingabo z’u Rwanda zari ibihumbi bitatu(3000).
Izi ngabo ubwo zageraga i Kisangani zisanzwe zagoswe n’abacanshuro bari batewe inkunga n’u Bufaransa. Mwibuke ko u Bufaransa bwari bushyigikiye Mobutu. Ibi byarakaje ingabo z’u Rwanda bituma zikomeza urugamba kugeza i Kinshasa. Nsanga zarabitewe n’ubushotoranyi bw’u Bufaransa.
11. Kuva icyo gihe nta mubare udakuka w’abaguye muri iriya ntambara wigeze utangazwa. Bamwe bavuga ko hapfuye abantu miliyoni esheshatu, abandi bakavuga miliyoni 10. Kuri mwe mubona iyi mibare yakwizerwa?
Patrick de Saint-Exupéry: Kuri njye mbona umubare wakwizezwa ari uwigeze gutangazwa n’abashakashatsi b’Ababiligi muri 2008 wavugaga ko abaguye muri iriya ntambara ari ibihumbi 183. Igitangaje ni uko raporo yabo yashyizwe mu kabati!
12. Hasigaye igihe gito ngo hasohoke raporo y’umuhanga Duclert ku ruhare rw’u Bufaransa muri Jenoside yakorewe Abatutsi. Ni iki muyitezeho?
Patrick de Saint-Exupéry: Mu by’ukuri sinshaka kugira icyo mvuga kuri raporo itarasohoka. Nzabanza nyisome nyuma ngire icyo mvuga. Gusa nizeye ko izaza itanga amakuru y’ukuri ku ruhare rw’igihugu cyanjye muri Jenoside yakorewe Abatutsi kuko amakuru arahari kandi adaca ku ruhande.
13. Watangiye kwandika ku mubano w’u Rwanda n’u Bufaransa mu Ukwakira 1990. Icyo gihe wandikiraga Le Figaro. Iyo urebye usanga ari iki cyakorwa ngo ibihugu byombi bibane neza kandi mu gihe kirambye?
Patrick de Saint-Exupéry: Nta kindi uretse kwemera gufungura amaso, tukareba ukuri uko kwagenze. Abafaransa bagomba kwemera gufungura amaso, bagasoma amateka y’ibyo bakoreye Abanyarwanda bakabyemera, ubuzima bugakomeza ariko bitari mu buryarya no mu gusuzugurana.
Usanga abantu baba bashaka korosa ibintu ku k’ukuri kugira ngo babane n’abandi mu buryarya kandi burya ushaka gukira indwara arayiganira!
